Recently, a Man who “feels like a Woman” left a comment on this blog. We will attempt to parse his comment and respond to it.
“Transgender activism is WOMEN RIGHTS and feminist at the core.”
This is an opinion statement. This is his opinion. Many of us (let’s call us radical feminists) disagree with this opinion. That’s ok. People are allowed to disagree.
“I appreciate that you are wasting time on such non-issues as people’s birth names, old gender identities, but in the end you are just promoting misogyny at the core.”
We don’t believe that most transgender people believe that “people’s birth names” are non-issues, as transgender people lobby very hard to have easy access to courts and other legal processes in order to change them. We track those developments because we believe that such developments can have negative effects on Women. We don’t know what an “old gender identity” is. We don’t think lesbian feminists observing legal developments and commenting on them “promotes misogyny at the core.” Do you? If so, why?
“Men have taught you the same precepts for so long that you cannot now tell the difference between someone who is natal female and one who has grown into a woman. One may not have been a girl, but yes they grew into a woman.”
Always fascinating to see the Male obsession with passing. Also, Females are born Female.
To separate and define ‘sex’ is not really in your place. God decided to make all humans, not just two genders that are so neatly wrapped into the framework of the limited human mind.
We don’t separate and define “sex.” Sexual dimorphism actually exists. It’s an observable fact. This is why we might say, flippantly, “ask your mommy where babies come from.” As for God, that’s religion. That’s faith. You are certainly entitled to your belief in God. Or Gender. And speaking of “two genders,” it seems you are conflating sex and gender AGAIN. Gender is a system. It’s not a binary. As Lierre Keith has said, Gender is a hierarchy.
Try as you may, your initiative is cursed to fail, and do you know why? Most likely because you are perpetuating STEREOTYPES (a word used over&over&over in your propaganda).
This would be an appropriate place to interject “citation needed.” No one who blogs at Gender Identity Watch believes there are inherent “male” or “female” characteristics (beyond sexual reproductive function). We certainly reject masculine and feminine “qualities” as innate to one sex or another. And we support the use of prohibitions against sex discrimination by transgender people to secure their rights. As this commenter believes that being a woman is a feeling, we would suggest that he actually depends on stereotypes for his identity.
Was this not taught in the same public schools where a child cannot pray in public?
We honestly don’t know what this means.
We are mothers, sisters, daughters, and placeholders in society, and it is honestly not YOUR job to come along and try to derail a train that has been running since the dawn of time. We still have hungry children, homeless youth, and domestic violence at an ALL TIME HIGH.
Not entirely sure what this means, but, again, it sounds like a Man telling Women what we should prioritise.
Find an issue and use your power to promote something, and do not use transgender people as an easy target.
We’ve found an issue (one of many). It’s gender identity, and how gender identity harms Women. We’ll stick with this, thanks. Transgender people are not our target. Gender identity is. In a free society, one has the ability to observe public facts and developments and comment on them. We shall continue to do so.
Take some control of your thoughts and put your power into good use. Your time is sincerely wasted on such non-issues.
Again, as Women, we are free to decide to “waste our time” on anything we like, sir.
Your twitter is sickening and your work is hard yet vomit-inducing.
Our Twitter is here. https://twitter.com/GIDWatch. Feel free to peruse and decide if you agree with his opinion.
I implore you to reconsider your angle and to stop before the entire community will serve to only embarrass you, for how many people do you truly know advocate such blatant hate.
As we are not part of the GLBT Community (as we see such community as one that marginalises Women), we really are unconcerned with whether or not we are “embarrassed” in its eyes. Indeed, the GLBT is an embarrassment. We don’t believe that advocating a more balanced approach to gender identity issues is “blatant hate.” Rather, we believe that demanding that Women pretend Men are actually Female approaches “blatant hate.”
You have no right to deny anyones existence, or to call someone a ‘man’ because you were born the same way I was: a squirming, puking, pooping infant with no installation of concept and coherent thought.”
You exist, sir. And we were both born human. Except we were born humans with vaginas. Because we are Female.
I am actually quite pleased you took time out of your day to reply to my comment so publicly.
I am not so offended as astonished that you took this as a man telling a woman what to do. I’d be very obliged to invite you over for Thanksgiving [a culturally appropriated holiday against my ancestors, but oh well I still cook] where I will be making this wonderful feast, there will be plenty leftover as my family is very small. I am hardly angry at you for referring to me as a man, for how can I prove that I have a vagina? That would be very obscene in nature.
ED NOTE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT’S “THE ROLE OF THE WOMAN” TO COOK THANKSGIVING DINNER? THAT’S A STEREOTYPE, SIR.
You’re last statement invalidates your entire organizations existence and purpose, as it was very rude and exceptionally a ‘low blow’ pun only slightly intended.
ED. NOTE: DICK PUNS DON’T MAKE US THINK YOU’RE FEMALE.
Now, if you are targeting Gender Identity, you are targeting TRANSGENDER people, for we are all the ones who were once, up until last year, classified as having Gender Identity Disorder. Now, your friends at the Mental health Association were very kind as to say it’s not a mental disorder, only a severe and often life-threatening personal discomfort with ones physical state.
ED. NOTE: YES. AND YOU NEED MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR THAT. PERHAPS YOU SHOULD READ MORE ON HOW WE PROPOSE TO DEAL WITH THIS BEFORE YOU LECTURE US, SIR.
So you are actually picking a fight with a whole community without even doing your research? You had no idea? You sincerely thought you could waltz into peoples personal lives and details and past history without question for some crusade that you had no idea what you were in fact actually attacking?
ED. NOTE: YOU ARE AN IGNORANT PERSON, AS THIS BLOG IS FILLED WITH LEGAL ANALYSIS AND RESEARCH. IT’S NOT ATTACKING YOU PERSONALLY. WE DON’T KNOW YOU.
Fine, make it about ‘sex’. That is what men do, they will beat a transwoman based on their sex, because they know know they are ‘men’ and are on the same level of them, even though they are not.
ED. NOTE: YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT GENDER IDENTITY LAWS DO, DO YOU?
I am actually excited to hear what you have to say to my views, as this is your forum to expound on these views, If I could, may I suggest instead of attacking these people who have identities different than their sex and seeing as you feel they ‘intrude on womens spaces’ so openly, would you rather not turn this anger into positive reinforcement and advocate for people with gender identities different than their sex to have their own co-ed spaces? I am trans myself and have no place to go, and others in my area feel the same. If someone, say, of your clout were advocating such spaces to be made, and third bathrooms, sure you would be doing an act of exclusivity, but you could be doing it in favor of the humanity people with different gender identities, rather. I am here if you as a group would like to approach all ways and be considerate to all views, always open to conversation.
ED. NOTE: NO, WE DON’T WORK FOR YOU.
We have “clout”? I will remember that the next time our voices are ignored by politicians, legislators, and the LGBTQIWTF “community”.
Hello, I was once part in organizing a lesbian feminist womans festival and the “transgender debate” came up. The group decided to expand the rule of admission that was set by previous organizational tealms to be incluseive of post-op transwomen and we included anyone who is honestly and truthfully identifying female and behaving accordingly. The background is that from all that we learned now, and this is promoted by the transgender community, there is a biological difference between men and women that goes beyond the shape of the genitalia and includes the brain and hormonal issues. And in “true transsexuals” (not neccesarily in other transgenders) there is a biological difference – parts of the brain are female. So if we take the brain as the center of the human consciousness and being, this makes transsexuality a biological condition, just like any other woman who is born with a deformity of the body. The key is basically what should be taken as the determinant if we call a person a man or a woman? to take the shape of the genitalia seems awfully primitive to me. Genetics also dont work well as there is XX, XY XXY and more and there are XX men and XY women (in all other aspects than chomosomes). So I think it makes sense to take the brain as the determining part of the human to assign a gender. If a person is female or male does in my opinion much more depend on his or her actions, thinking and behaviour than on birthtime genital shape. After all this is not even a clear distinction, there are mixed shapes and in the end the biological parts are identical but just differently shaped. It seems silly for me to take this as a determinant alone.
This is a whole lot of garbage. What are you trying to say?
Only white supremacists talk about “black person brains” and only misogynists talk about “woman brains.” Gender is a social construct. Stop trying to normalize oppression under the guise of biology.
Females don’t need to learn to behave as female, we are female by virtue of our XX bodies that include reproductive organs such as a vagina, cervix, ovaries, fallopian tubes, clitoris, and labia. Males can have a visual approximation through cosmetic surgery. Males will never have the reproductive function of female sex/reproductive organs.
So now hat will it be – are you now saying that XX females have for some reason (by birth?) the ability to behave as female? But females do not have a female brain by virtue of the XX, because unlike the rest of the body, the brain is identical to males? I find that odd, given that studies show biological differences. I personally think that women have beautiful brains capable of much better things than male dominance and hierarchical thinking. In what way does a brain difference have to be misogynist or oppressive? In fact I believe it is an advantage as we naturally act differently and with less oppressive or negatively aggressive ways than men do. I am not trying to be “misandrist” here and claim that women have “better brains” than men do, though I admit that in some ways I do think that this is true, but that is linked to specific abilities and I believe that it is a female way of thinking that is needed to build a better society.
This is very silly. You are very silly. Please read some books. Start with this one. http://www.amazon.com/Delusions-Gender-Society-Neurosexism-Difference/dp/0393340244
>”You are very silly.”<<
You do not seem to be interested in conversation but just in derogative pseudodiscussions. You do not present information but just make claims about other people being silly, stupid or talking garbage – what kind of discussion is this. Is this kindergarten where kids tell other peoples they are "idiots" and then just say "because you are" when asked for a reason? I refuse to discuss on this level when personal attacks and name callings are the norm. For your information, I not only did participate in feminist events and organization, I also did a PhD in a biochemical field of science and am able to read scientific literature. I am not used to discuss topics on the level of "you are silly".
In the last reply I was just pointing towards a discrpancy in your own argumentation here – on one hand one of the proponents of your cause here says "Females don’t need to learn to behave as female, we are female by virtue of our XX bodies" which sounds to me a tad bit like female supremacy thinking and refers to a difference in female behaviour from male behaviour. In my opinion, emancipation can only work both ways – women and men both have to emancipate themselves from gender sterotypes but both genders also have to realize that there are differences in people – they do somewhat correlate with XX and XY bodies or male and female brains but there is an overlap – so the social and behavioural aspects are more fluid than is acknowledged now but they are also not as uniform as some want to think – there is a variety of variants.
One thing that really cannot be explained away is the mental body map. Everyone has one – we KNOW how our bodies should be in our minds – if we loose part of the body, we know it should be there, right? Now as I understand the definition of true transsexualism, this mental image is what causes transsexual people to seek help. I know I would seek restorative treatments if my body would be altered in a way that does not fit my body map anymore – I think there is a certain need for body integrity that comes from within ourselves and not from a social context – a woman will cry at the loss of breasts or ovaries if they have to be taken because of cancer – not only because of the social context but because of the loss of body integrity – don't you agree on that? And I think if body integrity is lost, a person should be allowed to seek help to restore that as good as it is possible even if it is only an approximation, even if using a breast form or implants are not "real breasts", even if facial reconstructive surgery will not produce a perfecly natural face for women who have been crippled by their husbands with acid in Pakistan, but it helps to resore their body integrity. I would say from all of this that for true transsexuals this situation is the same. It is not true for transgenders, foe men who seek to "dress up" or who seek to "become women" because there is a lack of male emancipation from their own stereotypes or for homosexual guys who seek such a path to avoid being labeled as gay. In these cases it is about some form of identifying with female social gender roles and this is very questionable.
Please, if you want to reply to this comment, I would ask you to discuss with arguments and not with derogative terms or personal attacks or with "go read a book" – I would really like to discuss this but I do not see a point if this is about a fixed ideology that is non debatable and just lashes out at people who try to present points that differ from that ideology. Thank you
You are coming to our blog, sir, to “lash out.” Why don’t you start your own blog about female brains? Because we are not debating here. We are mocking your regressive views.
We will say it again – read Cordelia Fine, at the very least.
IP: 126.96.36.199, host118-2.natpool.mwn.de
E-mail: [email protected]
Trans males are extremely misogynist men who take every offensive stereotype about women and claim it is innate and their ‘identity’.
And what are you basing this on? I still do not understand your view – I do not know what transpeople you have met. Probably the high heeled miniskirt wearing variant who think that women cannot drive cars and men are made to be engineers? Those are stupid, misguided and your statement probably is very true for them. But I personally have met during my participation in a lesbian feminist organization a few women that I dare to call women even though they did have an XY genetics. They were not following gender stereotypes at all. When we set up an event, it was them as well as all the rest who did the outfitting of the whole stages and the rest – not following at all any gender sterotypes about handycrafts, clothing, behaviour towards the males from the building. Honestly, please tell me what offensive sterotypes you are referring to there because I think this is an insult really to some rather good friends of mine who I do not see doing anything that you describe. Maybe they are an exception, I do not want to rule that out as I have seen, especially in the media, a lot of “transwomen” who do what you describe and I find that as offensive as you, but I do not see how this can be generalized.
Stop commenting here. Thank you.
The man who wrote this article sounds very angry. Maybe he is upset he failed Sociology 101?
“Except we were born humans with vaginas. Because we are Female.” – That is some solid pre-school logic right there.
Unfortunately, in the real world, things aren’t that simple. If you don’t believe me, just google the term hermaphrodite.
There are a number of biological, psychological and sociological criteria we use to identify between genders. Genitalia is just one of them and certainly not the most important one.
If you want to build a club were you categorise people solely by genitalia you are welcome to do so. Just don’t pretend that it has anything to do with feminism and don’t you dare attack the liberties of people who don’t want to be part of it.
More information about babylonhoruv
IP: 188.8.131.52, cpe-24-160-179-156.columbus.res.rr.com
E-mail: [email protected]
Just got in an argument on the internet with a toothless, white, male-in-a-wig-with-fake-tits, “transactivist” with a “P.H.D.” who is also a “goddess” according to his bio… Some gems from this exchange:
“Biological sex is also a social construct, just as gender is a social construct, You cannot call one a social construct without calling the other such, and to argue that they are not both social constructs is intellectually dishonest and demonstrates ignorance about what social constructs are (|2|)”
The citation leads to a page on his tumblr where he mansplains that VISIBLE, OUTWARD, BIOLOGICAL sexual dimorphism is a social construct. If he truly believes this, then why does he feel the need to alter his body to reflect the outward characteristics of human females? Maybe he feels that our bodies are like gaming avatars that are mutable and plastic and that being born a certain way isn’t relevant to your existential “reality” or whatever (which any born-womyn knows isn’t true). The reason they become so angry is because we do not participate in their delusion.
“…while you are most free to hold that belief, it is not in line with the evidence nor the scientific understanding of what it means to be trans, and is an act of using institutional systems and power against a minority population in order to dominate and control them.”
The irony is palpable. I can’t even handle it. He is using institutionalized systems of gendered behavior, calling me a bigot for not accepting it, and even saying that I as a systematically marginalized person (a woman) am less marginalized than him. He even pulled a bunch of bogus articles about how trans people are more stressed out and prone to disease and depression (due to their intense self-hatred and untreated, unquestioned body dysmorphia, but whatever) and that hurting someone’s feels is the same as committing violence against them (which they have to believe, or else they wouldn’t be able to claim victim status so often). If refusing to participate in a delusion makes me a bigot, then I guess I’m a bigot! I’ll take it. I will engage in conversation. I will not be silenced.
“Calling trans women men/male is never radical. It is common, pathetic, violent, and cruel.” Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and makes violent threats against my person and tells me to shove sharp objects up my orifices like a duck… It’s so easy to see they are really socialized male. A little pushback, and they start telling you “I just told you not to do that” and “die cis scum”. The language they use is very very stereotypical male. If they wanted to be accepted as women, you’d think they’d have more of a commitment to *really* acting like a socialized woman, but nope. Men 100%.